Interview with Dean Joss, Stanford Graduate School of Business (GSB)(

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Dean Robert L. Joss, Philip H. Knight Professor and Dean, Stanford Graduate School of Business

About Dean Robert L. Joss, Philip H. Knight Professor and Dean, Stanford Graduate School of Business

Robert Joss, a leader in global banking, former Treasury Department official and Stanford Ph.D., became the eighth dean of the Stanford Graduate School of Business in 1999. He was the school’s first dean from industry in 17 years. Joss started his tenure as dean after six years as chief executive officer and managing director of Australia's Westpac Banking Corporation. From 1971 to 1993 he had held a variety of posts at San Francisco-based Wells Fargo Bank, rising to the position of vice chairman.

No stranger to the Business School at the time of his appointment, Joss was a Sloan fellow in 1965-66, earned an MBA in 1967 and a Ph.D. in 1970, writing his dissertation on the market for commercial paper. He was a member of the school's Advisory Council, a group of business executives that helps shape the school's future.

As head of Westpac, one of Australia's largest banks, Joss was credited with refocusing the bank strategically, modernizing and streamlining operations and restructuring the bank's culture to emphasize teamwork, customer focus, open communication, and community support. The bank's shareholders also benefited substantially during his tenure and since his retirement.

As dean of the Business School, he is currently overseeing the development of a new MBA Curriculum to be put in place for the class entering in September 2007 as well as fundraising and planning for a new $275 million business school campus at Stanford anticipated to start construction in 2008.

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Xing Zong: Business plan or startup competitions are a popular way for MBA students to take what they have learned in the classroom and put it into practice in a professional setting. But at most business schools, even those hosting competitions, the games are considered an extracurricular activity and students are not awarded credits for taking part. That is changing. Recently Blair Sheppard, the incoming dean at Duke's Fuqua School of Business, said he would like to add gaming elements to the school's education model. What is your comment on that?

Joss: I am not sure what you mean by gaming. If you mean simulations, we have done those for many years and they are one effective tool. However, we do not award credit or encourage public contests or startup competitions at Stanford because we do not believe they usually create the right incentives for learning. However, within the framework of elective classes under faculty leadership, such as Evaluating Entrepreneurial Opportunities, we have several opportunities for our students to present business plans to venture capitalists and have them thoroughly critiqued. We believe this classroom-facilitated approach has the greatest potential for learning and translating ideas into action. We are fortunate to have alumni and executives from both start ups and large companies as well as venture capitalists from Silicon Valley who regularly come into our classrooms for these valuable hands-on courses.

Xing Zong: According to a recent study published in the current issue of the Journal of Business Ethics, only 25 percent of the nation’s top business schools require a stand-alone ethics course before graduation. What does Stanford GSB do to address the following three issues: corporate social responsibility, ethics, and sustainability?

Joss: First, we have offered an ethics class to set out the frameworks for making ethical decisions. In recent years, we have added a case-based class on ethics that reviews ethical dilemmas as well. In the new curriculum every students will take a class called Ethical Analysis as a foundation prior to their second year. Beyond that, we also believe that ethics should not be confined to particular electives but woven into the fabric of discussion and cases throughout the curriculum.

Second, regarding corporate social responsibility: In 2000 we established the Center for Social Innovation. This multidisciplinary center creates a critical mass of programming, courses, and cases in areas such as corporate social responsibility, environmental sustainability, and non profit management. Its intent is to build bridges between business and the nonprofit sector and build the leaders necessary to effect social change. On April 3, for example, the Center cosponsored with our Global Supply Chain Management Forum, a conference called Socially and Environmentally Responsible Supply Chains: Making the Business Case.

In an examination of the sum total of what business schools do in the area of corporate social responsibility, the Aspen Institute, based in New York, ranked Stanford #1 in its most recent 2005 survey.

Xing Zong: The requirement of working experience for those who apply to an MBA program is based on the supposition that, MBA programs have very interactive methodologies –e.g., case studies, role-playing- a substantial part of the learning has as its main source, fellow participants. Recently, however, the requirement of previous professional experience is under question. Many b-schools have wondered whether professional experience could be waived if the MBA candidate has some other significant talents or in order to increase the class’ diversity, for example in terms of gender or international participants. What is your comment on that?

Joss: We have never taken the view that all students must have previous full-time work experience. When I went to business school back in the 1960s, many of us came straight from undergraduate programs. One or two years used to be the norm. Over the years, the average number of years of work experience of an entering MBA gradually expanded to about 4 years (or more) in the United States.

At Stanford, we do not have an undergraduate business school program. However, we welcome applications from graduating or recent college graduates. We look for demonstrated leadership potential which might have been shown in business, school, or community experience undertaken during the undergraduate years. Each year, we look for a few very talented and promising undergraduates who can add to our community. We find undergraduates often are strong in academics, may have acquired considerable experience in interesting ways, and can contribute actively to the classroom experience.

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Xing Zong: When Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft decided to drop out of Stanford's MBA program in order to follow his friend into the computer business, his father didn't hold back. "You're an idiot, you're insane, this is nuts.” Dean Joss, since entrepreneur spirits permeate in Stanford, what would you say if a MBA student approaches you, tells you he will drop out MBA program and start his own business? Will you convince him to stay?

Joss: I would ask him or her to think carefully. It’s a high risk strategy to drop out. Everyone hears about Steve Ballmer, but no one hears about other drop outs. If you leave before graduation and your venture doesn’t pan out, what will you have to fall back on?

A graduate management education is a long-term investment in yourself. You will never know what you do not know. The returns to knowledge have never been higher. Knowledge has never been more valuable than it is today.

Xing Zong: When the business school industry discusses the exciting topics of the moment, developments in Asia – particularly China and India – are top of the list. What get you excited about China?

Joss: What gets me excited about China is its enormous size and growth potential combined with an incredibly short supply of experienced and capable managers. Without this management talent, China will not reach its full growth potential.

Xing Zong: The ranking of 2007 full time MBA programs by Financial Times has been released. Among the noteworthy risers is the China Europe International Business School (CEIBS), which has climbed ten places to rank 11th. China’s booming economy aided its ascent. Dean Joss, do you foresee more competition or more collaboration between Stanford GSB and top Chinese Business schools?

Joss: Yes, I see more competition and more collaboration. We’re already collaborating with Tsinghua University in a popular MBA exchange program. We also host a faculty from Tsinghua each year.

Xing Zong: Last question, what is the percentage of international students in Stanford GSB? How many students does GSB admit each year from mainland China? What kind of Chinese applicants does GSB especially like?

Joss: Let me give you some numbers. 43% of our fall 2006 entering class was international. Of these 12% are from Asia. We don’t break down our country by country numbers per year. But I can tell you that we have a number of alumni (of all nationalities) currently living in China: Stanford University alumni in mainland China: 227. Of these, nearly half, 107, are graduates of the Graduate School of Business. Stanford University alumni in Hong Kong: 669. Of these, nearly one-third, 200, are graduates of the Stanford Graduate School of Business. If you add them up, the total alumni in China are 896. Of these, more than one-third, 307, are graduates of the business school.

Xing Zong: Dean Joss, thank you very much for your time. You are an excellent dean and I wish you and Stanford GSB all the success in the future!

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Xing Zong: This change intersects with the University’s recent launch of the Stanford Challenge, the most ambitious campaign in its history--$4.3 billion dollars to raise the horizon. Dean Joss, what will GSB benefit from this campaign? What are the foreseeable changes on your agenda?

Joss: The Graduate School of Business aims to raise $500 million as part of the University’s $4.3 billion campaign. The school’s priorities include funding for curricular innovations, student financial aid, including aid for foreign students, faculty, new buildings and cross-campus collaborations. We were very fortunate to receive a gift of $105 million – the largest gift ever to a business school – from Nike founder and Chairman Philip H. Knight, MBA ’62. However, we still need to raise the balance of the $275 million need to build the new campus and that will be part of the fundraising effort.

Xing Zong: What will the management education look like in the next 20 years? Do you envision it to be more inter-disciplinary and more personalized?

Joss: Yes. Management education will be more global, more multidisciplinary, and more about leadership and communication. People not only have to think about how to solve a problem they have to learn how to act on it. At Stanford, we are interested in creating more multidisciplinary learning – bringing students from different disciplines such as medicine, engineering, and business together to solve real world problems. For example, we already have a class called Bio-design Innovation in which medical students describe unmet medical needs, engineers prototype devices, and business students develop a business plan, so that as a team of specialists they work together to make the solution a reality.


Xing Zong: Let us discuss a few specific questions about MBA education. Harvard Business School Professor Joseph Badaracco's course on learning business lessons from literary characters has proved so popular he turned it into a book. "Questions of Character--Illuminating the Heart of Leadership through Literature". You probably also heard about the famous Chinese novel "Three Kingdoms". Many high profile Chinese businessmen consider it to be “Business Bible” because business world is just like a war. Dean Joss, do you think business education should consider teaching these historical wisdoms instead of focusing on too many technical details?

Joss: Non-business materials can often provide useful frameworks or metaphors through which managers can think about solving problems with and through other people on their team. In a newly created first-quarter course, called Critical Analytical Thinking, to be offered in our new fall 2007 MBA curriculum, students will read different cases and even some literature. They will hone their communication skills in written essays and discussion that cover areas such as What responsibilities does a corporation have to society? When do markets perform well, and when do they perform poorly? When does it make sense to exercise discretion; when should relatively rigid rules govern behavior? Students will be taught to think and argue about such issues clearly, concisely, and analytically, setting the tone for the rest of the program.

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Interview

Xing Zong: Dean Joss, it is my great honor to speak with you. Stanford GSB is going to launch a completely retooled curriculum in this fall semester. It is described as “bold, powerful and comprehensive”. So please tell us, what new? Why bold? How comprehensive?

Joss: It’s important to note that we have kept the Stanford Graduate School of Business MBA Program strategically small, at about 375 students per year, 750 in total, compared to more than two or more times that number at some of our top peer schools. This small size fosters a collaborative learning environment and a strong alumni network.


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Our new educational model builds on the enormous advantage of our small size to create a high-touch, customized program, with a significant new faculty-student advising and placement component that will challenge every student to his or her fullest capability. We are doing this to better prepare our students for 21st century leadership. The new program does not tweak at the margins; it aims to create a more global and more engaging experience for students. To be sure, the fundamentals—finance, accounting, operations, marketing and strategy, organizational behavior, and economics—are still there. It makes students think about what is necessary to good management from the first week they arrive here.”

First, the new curriculum will be more personalized to each student. After a common program in the first quarter, students will no longer face required courses, but rather a set of distribution requirements that will give them the breadth of knowledge a general manager requires. Over the years, there has a developed a tremendous diversity of students in MBA programs, including Stanford’s. By diversity, I do not necessarily mean demographic diversity. I mean diversity of background, experience, and knowledge. The new program addresses this diversity and will channel students into courses that will challenge and prepare them, regardless of their background.

Second, the new curriculum will engage students quickly in a deeper understanding of management. In the first quarter, students will take courses that raise fundamental questions of managerial relevance. These courses will include Teams and Organizational Behavior, Strategic Leadership, Managerial Finance, and The Global Context of Management. It will give them a context in which to understand and delve deeper into functions and disciplines such as finance, operations, and marketing in the following quarters. Improved placement through expanded faculty advising will engage students more effectively. A second-year fall schedule also will feature intensive one- and two-week seminars, in which students may take up specific subjects. The School plans to add to its complement of Bass Seminars, funded in part by a $30 million gift from Robert M. Bass, MBA ’74. These seminars of 30 students or less move students beyond passive learning and into topics of their own choosing. Guided by faculty members, students are largely responsible for creating the content of the seminars.

Third, the new plan calls for an expanded global management curriculum. This begins with the first-quarter course on The Global Context of Management and proceeds in two ways: The School will continue to globalize its cases and course materials, and a global experience will be required of each student during his or her two years at the School. This can be fulfilled by a study trip, an international internship, an overseas service-learning trip, or perhaps through a student exchange, such as the School’s new program with Tsinghua University’s School of Economics and Management in China. A similar exchange was set up in January with the Indian Institute of Management-Bangalore in India.

Finally, the new curriculum includes expanded leadership and communication development through our The Strategic Leadership course. All students will engage in a leadership program designed to enhance their communication and teamwork skills. In a new capstone seminar near the end of the two years, students will synthesize what they have learned, examine strengths and weaknesses in their personal leadership style, and reflect on how they hope to achieve their goals as they embark on their careers.