Career Goal Discussions(转贴）

hsWang

From: Syndroma Aug-4 5:47 am T ALL

Good morning,

As far as I understand, a big part of the introspection expected from any MBA candidate should lead to answers to the following questions: What are my career goals and expectations for short term and long term? Why an MBA from Wharton will help me to achieve these goals?

I clearly understand that putting on the table a clear path to become a partner in McKinsey has several benefits including: - shows strong motivation and mature business acumen - gives reinsurance about the "marketability" of an appliant

However, who knows what your life will be? I have read recently an article about convinced entrepreneurs that turned out to become VC's, etc.

Bottom line question: could it be harmful to present some uncertainty about your career goals in your application?

With best regards,

Options Reply5.0 (3 votes) From: nitshtank Aug-4 8:24 am T Syndroma (2 of 35) 7923.2 in reply to 7923.1

HI,,

I AM NITSH FROM INDIA. AS NOW INDIA IS BECOMING A FAST DEVELOPING COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AND GETTING MORE OPPERTUNITIES PEOPLE IN INDIA ARE NOW ABLE AND ALSO LUCKY THAT THEY CAN MAKE THEIR CAREER AS PER THEIR DESIRE.

I AM AN ENGINEER IN ELECTRONICS AND COMMUNICATION . I AM NOW IN MY FINAL YEAR OF MY GREDUATION AND NOW I HAVE SOME CONFUSION ABOUT MY FURTHER STUDIES .

MY GOAL IS TO BECOME A M.B.A. HOLDER FROM THE HIGH STANDARD UNIVERSITY IN U.S.A. BUT THE THING IS NOT FAVOURABLE SINCE I AM A FRESHER AND NOT HAVING ANY KIND OF EXPERIENCE .

SO WHAT ARE THE OTHER OPTION I CAN GO FOR TO FULLFIL MY DESIRE OF DOING M.B.A. IN STATES AND THAT IS ALSO WITHOUT HAVING AN EXPERIENCE.

I WILL BE GREATFUL TO YOU FOR THE RESPONSE.

THANK YOU

NITESH

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From: Syndroma Aug-4 9:32 am T nitshtank unread (3 of 35) 7923.3 in reply to 7923.2

Nishtank,

You should probably ask Alex ... he is in a better position to answer to your question than I am. Indeed, I am applying to Wharton this year and my vision of how to get in is limited.

Anyway, it seems that Wharton is accepting a few applicants just after their undergraduate degree and without any work experience. Moreover, the moto is "apply when you think it is the right time for you" ... so ultimately it is your decision.

Cheers,

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From: alexbr Aug-4 2:05 pm T Syndroma (4 of 35) 7923.4 in reply to 7923.1 i am not sure having a goal to be the head of mck. is worthwhile unless it is truly your goal ? sounds like you might be trying to create a goal that has some positive signal value to the adcom. and i think its thus less likely you have much real passion for the goal etc. and it will be hard to develop YOUR story to fit the goal ? even if this was something you truly wanted to do, i am not sure you need to be company specific (versus industry etc ?) cheers, alex Options ReplyRate

From: alexbr Aug-4 2:06 pm T nitshtank unread (5 of 35) 7923.5 in reply to 7923.2 i guess it would be interesting to note why you would rather go for an MBA before working post undergraduate. there is a lot to be gained (potentially) by having a little experience beofre re-entering a very engaging learning environment ? cheers, alex Options ReplyRate

From: Syndroma Aug-4 2:32 pm T alexbr (6 of 35) 7923.6 in reply to 7923.4

Alex, thanks once again for your reply.

On the first hand, I don't want to become Head of Mc Kinsey, it was just an example On the other hand, I don't see why giving a detail vision of your career goals is so important. I mean, let's say that you have an extensive entrepreneurship spirit and that you plan to set up your own business, it may sounds good. However, at the end of your career, perharps you wouldn't own your business, perharps will you be an investment banker or a Mc Kinsey analyst ;)

So what does my initial statement sounds mean? That you have thought a lot about your career., that's all. Among all the declared entrepreneurs on the application process, how much finally achieved their goal? Don't you feel that there are so many careers that could be fun in one's professional life?

Then I wonder what would be the perception of somebody who just think that business is a game, someone who just want to see until where he can go? The kind of person for who challenge is far more important that a VP title on a business card? Will it be harmful for his application?

Any feedback will help me in my introspection work.

Cheers,

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From: jeamish Aug-4 3:10 pm T Syndroma (7 of 35) 7923.7 in reply to 7923.6

I think what you're pointing out is a phenomenon that the ADCOMM is well aware of. Of course people's goals, ideas and aspirations change. That's the nature of the beast. Anything else would be boring. What's important, however, is the ability to question one's ideas and motives.

You touched on this point in your own post:

"That you have thought a lot about your career., that's all."

Except that it's no small matter to do this. "That's all" doesn't adequately express the advantages of this introspective search. Most people don't take the time to find this out about themselves and end up floating along from one job to another. That's not the sort of person Wharton (or any other top school) looks for.

Schools look for leaders, and leaders (it can be argued) possess the ability and inclination to question themselves and those around them. To examine people and issues closely.

So, while you may or may not end up at the helm of McKinsey, it's the ability to think that far, to plan for a bright future and to work actively towards it that the school looks for.

At the same time, there's a difference between being a leader and being a dreamer. Visions of the corner office can be easily conjured up, but its the follow up that make your dreams realistic and believable, so if you're planning to write about heading McKinsey you better make sure that you have the data and experience to back you up.

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From: Syndroma Aug-4 3:47 pm T jeamish (8 of 35) 7923.8 in reply to 7923.7

Thank you jeamish for your wise feedback. Food for fought...

Cheers,

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From: CiaraTruglia Aug-8 4:24 pm T Syndroma unread (9 of 35) 7923.9 in reply to 7923.6

I think I feel somewhat the way you do. I can clearly see several things I think I'd enjoy and be good at doing. And I feel like there's no way to know which path I'll take (if even ANY of those) when the MBA experience will obviously change me as a person, and present unforeseen possibilities.

I think the goals essay is the one I dread, for that reason. I guess I'll probably wind up choosing one of my plausible current options and just going with it. Then while I'm actually in the program (hopefully) I will be able to truly decide.

I know when people are searching for jobs, lack of a clear objective is certainly looked down upon. But I would think it would be looked down upon much more so than upon application to Wharton. Because a job is very different than a MBA program. But you can't be aimless....

....if I come up with the answer, I'll let you know. But don't hold your breath.....At least I'm not applying this year, good luck.

~ Ciara ~

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From: arbit23 Aug-12 1:44 pm T CiaraTruglia (10 of 35) 7923.10 in reply to 7923.9

I would say goals are absolutely important for the purpose of application. The perception seems to be that the MBA throws you right in the deep end, and unless you know atleast vaguely what you want out of life, it will not provide you the time to think which stroke you wish to swim.

Offcourse it is a totally different thing that most MBA applicants change their goals once they get exposed to the new culture and the diverse classes, but that is a whole new ball game.

So sad as it may seem, you better articulate atleast a set of goals that gell with your previous work/educational experience, and swith some thoughts to the career transitions that will help you get there. Because without those you CANNOT write "Why MBA, or Why Wharton (any school)".

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hsWang

From: Alexey_K (LexxRuss) Aug-12 9:08 pm T arbit23 (11 of 35) 7923.11 in reply to 7923.10

Hi arbit,

How do you shape your goals and what kind of process was it, and, as a result, what are/were your personal goals of pursuing MBA? I'm not only curious - you are an interesting individual and all info from you will be very-very appreciated here.

Alex far in russia

Options ReplyRate From: sungwoowoo Aug-14 9:26 am T Syndroma (12 of 35) 7923.12 in reply to 7923.1 Syndroma, I think I may be in the same boat here. I am looking for admission into Wharton to help me get the skills (and contacts) that I need to begin my career transition but having worked in the non-profit sector, I really have no real idea what it would be like to be on Wall Street, or to be a consultant, etc. So, like you I am curious to see what other postings come after this.

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From: anderson_mba Aug-14 3:07 pm T sungwoowoo (13 of 35) 7923.13 in reply to 7923.12

Hi,

You may want to reach out to some professionals in a field that interests you and read up on job descriptions. I worked in IT and Business Consulting and call tell you, at a high level, what consulting for a Big 4 is like.

1. Expect to travel 100% of the time. That means, you will be getting on a plane early on Monday morning and flying back on Friday evening (hopefully by 7 pm at home).

2. Expect to work on 6 mo. - 1 year projects. For each assignment you will likely be working for a new client and a brand new team. You will have to prove yourself to management and the client at the beginning of each engagement.

3. Expect to work some long hours and some weekends. If you are working on proposal work or a technical implementation then expect to work perhaps 4 weeks of overtime (60-80 hours/week) each year at a minimum plus a couple weekends (staying in your client location).

4. Most people don't gain extremely deep skills at first since you get moved around a lot. You must manage your own career and make sure that you get good roles.

5. In between projects, many people go to what us consultants call, "the bench" or "the beach." Unless you are independent, you should get paid for this time. You will be responsible for marketing yourself (with the help of you HR rep) and depending on the economy and the company, fear losing your job. Although this sounds like a free vacation, it is actually a bit stressful unless you have a really strong network of people looking for opportunities for you.

6. You have to be a go getter and be able to work in a team environment.

I am sure that I am leaving out a whole lot but that's just a quick view of it. I worked in consulting for 6 years and have decided to pursue an MBA to make a career change to product management. I think it will be nice to settle down and gain some deep skills in one area.

Good luck in your research!

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From: Jahn77 Aug-15 1:36 am T anderson_mba (14 of 35) 7923.14 in reply to 7923.13

100% traveling?

You are kidding, right?

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From: anderson_mba Aug-15 10:04 am T Jahn77 (15 of 35) 7923.15 in reply to 7923.14 For some people that has been their experience. Others do get lucky and work in their home towns but many only get to stay home when they are in between projects. I know many people who have had to travel their whole career up until year 6. Options ReplyRate

From: MaverickBian Aug-15 12:06 pm T Jahn77 (16 of 35) 7923.16 in reply to 7923.14

Consulting or service in different industries has varied periods of assignment.

I know some guys who are consulting for IBM have relocated to IBM site with family and planed to work there for a couple of years.

In China, I knew consulting firms like D&T often work for their customers for a couple of months in accounting or M&A area; the customers pay them from the beginning of the inbound flight to the end of outbound flight. During that period, they stay there all the time.

For some manufacturing equipment vendors, their contracts often require them to respond to trouble-shooting on call within one hour and on site within 24 hours, wherever of the world you are working at the time. So, they often travel around the world to put off fires on demand anytime anywhere.

Some Chapter 11 "Salvage Army" or bailout consultants often work for their assignment at one or several places for one to three years until the company that have filed bankruptcy protection steps out of C11.

Things like that.

Based on my knowledge, I didn't think Anderson_MBA is kidding here. But I found that the most favorite positions by top-20 B-School MBA students are those in big seven consulting firms such as Mckinsey, D&T, PriceWaterhouseCoopers(IBM), and the like, and these positions are holding the highest average entry-level pay for MBA grads, according to B-Schools?brochures. Maybe it's because of the very long-term travel and frequent overtime hard-work.

Edited 8/15/2004 12:26 pm ET by MaverickBian Options ReplyRate

From: srinivask Aug-16 10:29 pm T Jahn77 (17 of 35) 7923.17 in reply to 7923.14

These guys are not kidding man. From August 2002 to December 2003, I was in my city of residence for 2 complete weeks -- Monday to Friday. My passport bears the testimony.

And guess how I pulled off the 2 weeks in Singapore. I needed to get my visa processed for my next assignment...

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From: Jahn77 Aug-17 1:35 am T srinivask (18 of 35) 7923.18 in reply to 7923.17

Well, that leaves MC career out of my long term career goals.

As you can see, I am trying to identify and select my career by eliminating the ones that are not suitable.

I still have a long way to g)

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From: arbit23 Aug-17 10:42 am T Alexey_K (LexxRuss) (19 of 35) 7923.19 in reply to 7923.11

It is difficult to post my personal story without an essay length answer, not to mention the loss in annonymity. But I can definitely share how I went about the process.

For the past 3 years outside of work, I have been involved with a group/project, that I have lavished time and effort on, rivaling that I put in my job. Now having a fair idea of what it means to walk down the new path, and having reached a certain point in my present career where I feel I am not interested in further growth along my current lines, I plan to leverage those experiences.

I think I can put forth a fairly compelling story as to why I need a MBA to help me down this new path. While at the same time providing a good track record to show that since I have done a good job without the MBA, I can only do better with one.

Now, whether I will continue down the path I am thinking about post MBA is a completely different question. After all an MBA is the catalyst of change. With the myrid opportunities and people it puts you contact with you cannot help but be changed by that process. The chances that you will change your focus are extremely high. Everyone knows that I guess, but having know what it is your are interested in can only help in making that decision easier. For eg. Suppose you like working with people and don't like technology. You could project a career in working with a non-profit (if thatis what you like to do), but after getting exposed to business school, if you decide not to work for a non-profit, you could switch to MC, where you will still be working with people but different from your initial goal.

Hope that has been somewhat helpful and does answer your question to some extant. My personal story is a little too personal to share on the board, so my apologies for not posting it out here.

Options Reply5.0 (1 vote)

From: Alexey_K (LexxRuss) Aug-17 9:21 pm T arbit23 (20 of 35) 7923.20 in reply to 7923.19

First I understand your efforts to keep privacy - something is for peoples, something is not.

Although you tried to explain your goals (and things that were before goals) in general terms, you said more - and that is enough for me. I am not interested in numbers (...) but as you know who I do see for maturity, lidership, potential and so on.

I hope you have prepared enough to get admited.

Second Having such a workload as you have how do you manage to participate in social activities? ;) What kind are they (if not a secret)?

Alex

hsWang

From: arbit23 Aug-18 6:08 pm T Alexey_K (LexxRuss) (21 of 35) 7923.21 in reply to 7923.20

>>I hope you have prepared enough to get admited.<<

Oh I am confident I make a great candidate, I have the numbers on my side (read datapoints), my story is pretty unique and gripping. But the million dollar question is whether it is enough to get the fat envelope. Now that I can probably answer only come December 23.

>>Having such a workload as you have how do you manage to participate in social activities? ;) What kind are they (if not a secret)? <<

Time management, lack of sleep and organizing a social life that encompasses all my other activities, guess I was lucky that my wife (then my girl friend), took interest in the same things that I did.

Options ReplyRate From: Alexey_K (LexxRuss) Aug-18 9:00 pm T arbit23 (22 of 35) 7923.22 in reply to 7923.21

>>>Oh I am confident I make a great candidate, I have the numbers on my side (read datapoints), my story is pretty unique and gripping. But the million dollar question is whether it is enough to get the fat envelope. Now that I can probably answer only come December 23. <<<

I am confident that you get it (I mean the fat envelope with admittance confirmation /or congratulations?). I even can bet money on it (not a $1M but a dinner value). The question is whether you manage to write down who you are in the best way - I hope you did.

Time management? Oh no! Are you kidding? Sometimes I think adcom whould suspect that I'm crook if I write my daily-nightly life on paper with its 26-27 hours a day (of 'normal' human activity). 'Work hard - play hard' that's my motto..

Just wonder, what's your wife opinion about Wharton. Do you plan live together in Philly or not, or first year so - second so.

Keep hope!

Alex

p.s. I'm sorry for probable mistakes in my english, I'm working on it too.

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From: wharton002 Aug-19 12:32 pm T Alexey_K (LexxRuss) (23 of 35) 7923.23 in reply to 7923.22

Your English is not bad. Don't be so hard on yourself. You're doing fine.

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From: arbit23 Aug-19 7:31 pm T Alexey_K (LexxRuss) (24 of 35) 7923.24 in reply to 7923.22

Alex,

I wish I had your confidence, then I could stop worrying. But good luck to you as well. If there boards are any precursor to B-school, I can only imagine what life must be once you get in. It is truly wonderful to interact with so many brilliant people from such diverse backgrounds.

I do hope we all get admission, it will make for a very interesting class.

With regards to my wife and school, she is extremely supportive and enthusiastic about business school. She plans to take some courses as well and if possible work part time. I understand Wharton has a great "partner's club", so hopefully that should work out well.

Don't worry about the English, as you can probably tell, I am trying to polish up my skills as well.

Regards!

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From: Alexey_K (LexxRuss) Aug-19 9:32 pm T arbit23 (25 of 35) 7923.25 in reply to 7923.24

>>>With regards to my wife and school, she is extremely supportive and enthusiastic about business school. She plans to take some courses as well and if possible work part time. I understand Wharton has a great "partner's club", so hopefully that should work out well. <<<

Frankly speaking, "Partner's club" is the thing that 'whispers' me "stop searching, that's yours" about 1 year ago. Words 'community', 'mutual aid and understanding', 'team', 'humanity' and 'warm' were only ad words for me in BS searching process - before I met 'Partner's club' and its booklet. That stoped my eyes for a moment. I got interested and allowed myself to immerse in Wharton WWW... programs, s2s, diaries, events, alexbr and FF.. So, I get stuck here.. All (or many) of top BS have strong programs (I'm looking for both finance and strategy), but here I find something, something especiall. I hope you know what

I'll send my apps next year in R1. This year is not good for admission - I wish it, I think I ready for it as applicant, but I, as the best manager of myself, postpone it to get the maximum effect - not maxima as an applicant but as graduate... As I say it always not MBA is one's goal nor its top-name - goal should be more complex.. Atleast I think so..

I see your wife shares your views and I hope you share hers, it's great, it's really great - it strengthens both line of life and love. As for me, my wife is not only wife and mother of my future children but the partner and even more.

Meet you as the second year student

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From: Alexey_K (LexxRuss) Aug-19 10:05 pm T wharton002 unread (26 of 35) 7923.26 in reply to 7923.23

>>Your English is not bad...<<

Oh, really? Glad to hear it. I know that the proficiency of a native speaker is unattainable for me, but I strive to be good enough to participate in discussions, to listen to and to understand, and to expound my thoughts clearly.. In the native environment I feel free to direct conversation (or discussion) in the proper way, to achieve synergy in teamworking and, of course, to play with words sometimes - so, I don't want to be lacking of all of it in Wharton.

Alex

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From: MaverickBian Aug-19 10:08 pm T Alexey_K (LexxRuss) (27 of 35) 7923.27 in reply to 7923.25

Alex, you sure make progress in writing in English from day to day.

If you have enough time to prepare for your application, I think GRE reasoning and reading may help you a lot about the details of Americans' daily life. LSAT seems to be much harder, but if you could finish it, you'd be sure to get at least 710~730 in your GMAT test if math is not a problem for you. BTW, don't ignore oral/listening English in TOEFL test. Sticking to ETS questions all the time is the best strategy to prepare for GMAT.

For Chinese, spending 2 years seems to be very typical in planning on studying abroad. I found in most US graduate schools, most Ph.D's are from China and most Masters are from India, in part because Chinese have no money to pay US tuition and Ph.D's can get a scholarship to fund their study by acting as their professor's RA or TA. But B-Schools are totally different. In NY B-Schools, you have to claim you have the ability to pay down your tuition first($100,000 to $120,000), yet Wharton is different.

Godspeed to you.

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From: Alexey_K (LexxRuss) Aug-19 10:52 pm T MaverickBian (28 of 35) 7923.28 in reply to 7923.27

As for always winning person my gmat target is 800, but gmat itself is not the target for me - so 700-750 is enough . Of course I suffer losses in my life, that were crushing and destructive enough to lose hope and believe, but nevertheless I'm still winning person and strive to win is core of mine. What about losses? - I used them.. first, to strengthen myself and, second, to understand better myself. No mistakes - no evolution..

Thank you for GRE, LSAT advise - I promise I use it. I think it will be easy to take 100% of 100% in quantative section but rather hard would be verbal (english, english..).

ps. Do you read "The Art of Profitability" by Adrian Slywotzky with its 27 profit models? That's my selfset extracurricular reading..

Alex

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From: CiaraTruglia Aug-24 8:55 am T Alexey_K (LexxRuss) unread (29 of 35) 7923.29 in reply to 7923.26

Your English, and many of the other ESL posters in this thread, if better than that of the average American in my opinion.

Of course there are some stylistic points that sometimes give away the fact it's not your first language, but overall the average American doesn't have the same command on "our" vocabulary.

Of course, the average American is not applying to Wharton, but it seems to be your language skills are definitely strong enough to show that you would be able to interact with your cohort and do just fine.

~ Ciara ~

<<Oh, really? Glad to hear it. I know that the proficiency of a native speaker is unattainable for me, but I strive to be good enough to participate in discussions, to listen to and to understand, and to expound my thoughts clearly.. In the native environment I feel free to direct conversation (or discussion) in the proper way, to achieve synergy in teamworking and, of course, to play with words sometimes - so, I don't want to be lacking of all of it in Wharton.

Alex>>

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From: Abbix Aug-24 9:10 am T alexbr (30 of 35) 7923.30 in reply to 7923.28

hi alex,

for the last 3.5 years, i've been working as an industry analyst with the same company. there is no real hierarchy in this organisation, where one is either an executive, with one designation, or a manager, or a director. All the managers here have either been with the company for more than 10 years or have over 10 years of work ex. this is my first job. hence, while my responsibilities here have grown since the time i've joined the company, it does not show in my designation. my salary has almost trebled (but from a very low base) since the time i've joined this company. what would be the best way to describe my growth in the organisation, or explain how i've made a difference? secondly, i know i want to pursue a career in the field of investment and security analysis....but lack clarity in the career paths that i can follow with this line of work. i can come up with names of many banks and financial institutions that would need such skills. but then, i am not sure of the day-to-day work that such an analyst would do and how it fits into the "big picture". this leads me to wonder about growth prospects in this line of work. how far can i go up the corporate ladder? so, i guess my question is what are the areas/careers where one can grow if they start out as investment analysts. where can i learn more about this field of work? i mean....what kind of people should i speak to, are there specific web-sites that i can look at, etc. ? this question is not specifically for you alex. responses from all and sundry reading this would be highly appreciated!

thanks,

abbix

hsWang

From: alexbr Aug-24 3:45 pm T Abbix (31 of 35) 7923.31 in reply to 7923.30

1. in the employment section you will both be able to state your starting and current salary (growth) and note your responsibilities and accomplishments etc. (more opportunity to highlight growth). no doubt you will also be able to illustrate your experiences (and learnings) in some of the essays.

2. others may have more detailed response, but i would start with people you know who are doing things you want to do, and do some informational interviews with them etc ?

cheers, alex

Options ReplyRate From: Abbix Aug-25 1:21 am T alexbr (32 of 35) 7923.32 in reply to 7923.31 Thanks a lot. i have recently (2-3 days back) started reading the s2s posts. If I decide to apply to Wharton, I hope to be able to do so by the first deadline. However, if I can't do that and end up applying only by the second deadline, will that set me back or worsen my chances (even marginally) in any way, when compared to applying by the first deadline ? (let's assume the quality of the application is the same) Options ReplyRate

From: summitcounty Aug-25 1:39 am T Abbix (33 of 35) 7923.33 in reply to 7923.32 You have the same chances in Round 1 and Round 2. The waitlist is used to ensure the quality of admitted applications is the same for both rounds. Options ReplyRate

From: Classynfun1 Aug-26 10:51 am T Abbix (34 of 35) 7923.34 in reply to 7923.30

I don't know if this works for you, but I'll tell you what I'm doing on my applications. In addition to my recommenders explaining this a bit, I'm using my optional essay in all of my applications to explain the heirarchy of my company. It's very short and sweet, but I want to make sure it's in there. By title it appears as if I've have two promotions in the 6 years I've been with my company. In reality I've gone from intern, to trainee, to level 1, to senior, (all internal notations only) to special investigator. I know the adcom members are smart, but I also know they are incredibly busy and if I don't spell it out, it's easy to overlook for anyone outside of the insurance industry.

Good luck!

Edited 8/26/2004 10:54 am ET by Classynfun1 Options ReplyRate

From: Abbix 1:00 am T Classynfun1 unread (35 of 35) 7923.35 in reply to 7923.34

ya...i think i'll be doing something similar as well....the list of stuff i have to put on my optional essay is becoming longer and longer!

thanks and good luck!