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求助OG12 86 中with的用法

#86
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it fell over the last two years.


(A) which increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it fell
(B) which had increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it had fallen
(C) which have increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after falling
(D) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after falling
(E) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after having fallen
正确选项是C 但是我这里对D选项有疑问~

with。。。这里能不能作为more information 来具体说说 前面的measures are evident呢?
RON说到,
in this sentence, we don't want an adverbial modifier, since it doesn't make any sense for this modifier to apply to the entire preceding clause.
rather, we want a modifier that will only modify the noun at the end of the preceding clause (i.e., "profits"). since this is the exact function of a "which" modifier, that's the modifier we want here.这一点是如何确定的呢?我觉得补充说明前面的句子也是说得通的呢。。。有木有什么判断标准呢?还是全凭语感?

后来又有一个instructor给出D的另一个错误点,我觉得说的很对。
1.Upon further review, I'll even say this - what is the subject of the verb "falling" in D? We haven't set up "profits" as a subject (as we did with "which" as a reflexive pronoun in C), so D has an unclear meaning - what fell?
2. "with" in D should have a meaning as something that joins two things, so it seems like it would link "are evident in its profits...with an increase", making "profits" and "an increase" as two separate and equivalent items...and that's an illogical meaning because the "increase" doesn't have a clear number or value in that case. You can't simply have "an increase" - that increase has to be attached to a number, a figure, etc. So the word "with" in D introduces a lack of clarity throughout the underlined portion - the increase is vague and the verb "falling" has no subject. D is incorrect on several counts.
但是如果忽略这个错误点,求解释上面那个with为什么不能修饰前面的句子呢?

看到这里我想到了#29题,里面提到with的用法:
"with modifier"("with modifier"都是针对前面紧挨着它的名词或动作,来给出illustration.)
以及由此引申出了#63,也说道with的用法 其中举出了猴子的例子
Now lets consider a scenario in which “with” modifier modifies the preceding clause. This is a GMATPrep Question. You can find the detailed solution of this question at this link.


Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline.
The comma +with modifier above modifies the preceding clause. In essence this sentence can be written as two separate sentences:
1. Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen monkeys sleeping on the branches.
2. Their arms and legs are hung like socks on a clothesline.


So sentence 2 has been converted into with modifier. This modifier extends the thought of the preceding clause by providing a detail supporting it.
这里就说到,后面的with是补充说明前面的句子,这里与86题的补充说明有什么不同么?感觉这两个句子很像呀,怎么来判定什么时候是补充说明,什么时候不是补充说明呢?
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我来试着答答看~
我觉得关键还是看meaning,86题之所以要用which,是因为这里想要说的是profit的增减,而不是The results of the company's cost-cutting measures如何 evident in its profits;用comma+with...也就是adverbial modifier形容action的时候,你可以问一下how?how the action happen?
另外LZ仔细看一下会发现,如果这里用了 with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after falling,(what increase?)我们就不知道到底是什么increase了5 percent;但是用which可以很清晰的知道是profit增加了5percent;原句的意思是说这个cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits; the profits increased 5 percent  increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year.  
另外,我记得有一个曼哈顿的instructor说过,如果其他modifier能够更清楚的表达主句和modifier之间关系的话,优先用别的modifier:
My understanding of the explanation is that the GMAT doesn't like absolute phrases (With the assigned homework having been completed, the children went out to play) and doesn't like "with" clauses when a more precise and concise relationship between the two things could be written
至于你说的第二句Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline. 这里的with明显就是做adverbial modifier形容一个action,也就是sleeping on the branches,你可以问how does the monkeys sleep on the branches? oh they sleep with their arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline.

关键还是要看intended meaning要表达什么,然后从五个选项里选出最能表达这个meaning的写法~

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谢楼上回答~
所以这个的意思还是说with比较侧重于描述前面提到的具体的action,而不是某种状态和结果,是么?

另,请问一下,LS提到的另一个instructor提到的对with的偏好性的问题,我觉得说的很赞哎~请问一下是在千行的那个文件里面么?我还没有看到。。。

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谢楼上回答~
所以这个的意思还是说with比较侧重于描述前面提到的具体的action,而不是某种状态和结果,是 ...
atlantiswind 发表于 2013-5-29 06:37


我忘了,貌似不是千行里的,我是曼哈顿论坛里面的看到的,当时摘录了下来。
comma+with或者comma+prepositional phrase,都是做adverbial modifier,正确的说法应该是modify  the preceding clause。那也就是包括了整套主谓。

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我忘了,貌似不是千行里的,我是曼哈顿论坛里面的看到的,当时摘录了下来。
comma+with或者comma+prep ...
konglxd 发表于 2013-5-30 06:45



    啊啊啊 那我又晕了
上面的86题和猴子的那个例子,如果用with。。。的话不都是修饰前面整套主谓么?猴子说明的how does the monkeys sleep on the branches ;86题修饰的是前面的the results are evident呀?T ^ T
对不住LS 看来我还是没能明白你说的“我觉得关键还是看meaning,86题之所以要用which,是因为这里想要说的是profit的增减,而不是The results of the company's cost-cutting measures如何 evident in its profits”。。。我是真的看不出来这两句的句意区别呀?!求指教。。。

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啊啊啊 那我又晕了
上面的86题和猴子的那个例子,如果用with。。。的话不都是修饰前面整套主谓 ...
atlantiswind 发表于 2013-5-30 19:03



    不是的,你仔细看86题它原句的意思:
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits;
the profits  increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year.
是这么两层意思。之所以用which是为了说明profit如何
如果你用with,变成了 the results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident。。。 with a 5 percent increase....这里的increase不再是说profit了,它的逻辑主语变成了the results.(就像我之前的答复,what increased? we just know there are something increase 5 percent, but is that profit?)但原句意思是在说profit增长,所以用which直接指代profit更加清楚,我们要遵从intended meaning。
还有 我记得以前ron还说过,with有时候还会被人解释成 the results of the company's cost-cutting measure actually have a 5 percent increase----- this does not make sense.

comma+with是adverbial modifier 修饰preceding clause,但是你这里不是要修饰preceding clause,而是根据原意要修饰profit,一个noun,所以要用which!而不是用with!
我说用how the action happen,是让你用这个方式来判断comma+with是否能够清晰的表达intended meanning,不是说这个就是对的,如果没法表达intended meaning,就不用了。这题就不行~


我无法说的更加清楚了= =  如果没能帮到你,sorry。。。

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啊啊啊 那我又晕了
上面的86题和猴子的那个例子,如果用with。。。的话不都是修饰前面整套主谓 ...
atlantiswind 发表于 2013-5-30 19:03


So the word "with" in D introduces a lack of clarity throughout the underlined portion - the increase is vague and the verb "falling" has no subject
LZ再仔细看一下OG的解释,其实已经说得非常清楚了,我加粗的地方你好好看一下,尤其是这句“the increase is vague”,这就是我之前说得,what increases? 原文说的很清楚,it is the profit that  increases. 用with显然不能清晰的表达
My understanding of the explanation is that the GMAT doesn't like absolute phrases (With the assigned homework having been completed, the children went out to play) and doesn't like "with" clauses when a more precise and concise relationship between the two things could be written

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So the word "with" in D introduces a lack of clarity throughout the underlined portion - the inc ...
konglxd 发表于 2013-6-4 20:29


谢谢谢谢~真的非常详细,清楚了!
我自己又细读了几遍题目和解释,发现对intended meaning来说which确实更准确!“how the action happen"的方法很好用的样纸~以后遇到with拿来试一试

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